tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post6540985469191690177..comments2024-03-01T03:36:45.772-05:00Comments on THE WHEEL OF SAMSARA: Exploration-based Experience for the DungeonMatthew Slepinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-35700961445367854132010-11-18T15:51:40.953-05:002010-11-18T15:51:40.953-05:00Wouldn't each room really need 250XP*(Size of ...Wouldn't each room really need 250XP*(Size of the party), if the assumption is that once "the party" explores the entire dungeon level, they all level up (with the Elf being the exception)?Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06259868994112526101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-12620260482816467802010-10-08T14:55:35.015-04:002010-10-08T14:55:35.015-04:00@Matt: Definitely. It helps that the players are s...@Matt: Definitely. It helps that the players are somewhat in control of the rate of advancement. If they want to just level already, they can make a beeline for the artifact and skip exploring the tertiary parts and sublevels of the dungeon.<br /><br />However, if they feel the itch for adventure, they're free to do that as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-48477241847559469712010-10-06T20:07:03.268-04:002010-10-06T20:07:03.268-04:00The one thing to keep in mind is that your model r...<i>The one thing to keep in mind is that your model rewards every character the same no matter the size of the party. A smaller party faces greater dangers, though; a party of 4 may not want to fight those ogres on the 1st level, but a party of 8 stands a better chance, and so will get more xp from the level as a whole. Unless your levels are very homogeneous you may want to take this into account.</i><br /><br />I'm not sure about this. The shift from party XP to individual XP may indeed be the biggest change proposed. But if the goal is to explore and a larger party explores more, then there should be greater rewards. That, in itself, is one of the reasons that you might want to collect treasure - to finance hirelings, etc. It makes a kind of loop from Exploring -> Fighting -> Treasure -> Exploring.Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-3510604911672847342010-10-06T20:04:26.401-04:002010-10-06T20:04:26.401-04:00Rather than applying a constant amount, I'd ra...<i>Rather than applying a constant amount, I'd rather mark up certain 'encounters' as being more valuable than others, a la JRients' post linked above.</i><br /><br />Absolutely. I guess that I didn't make clear enough that the numbers I was putting down were baseline guides, more than anythign else. That is: <br /><br />If you have a dungeon of about this size, then each area ought to average 250 XP<br /><br />I definitely agree that the ref needs to fine-tune then. Frex, some keyed areas are nothing more than empty areas with a description: "the room is bare except for some mouldering bones". I wouldn't give XP for that.<br /><br />Conversely, some areas are "key spots" and would work well as high-XP markers.Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-58954446392413642442010-10-06T20:01:34.122-04:002010-10-06T20:01:34.122-04:00About 5-6 months, weekly.
So, that's a good r...<i>About 5-6 months, weekly.</i><br /><br />So, that's a good run. Approx 20-25 sessions. Has the rate of advancement been agreeable?Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-18729231151512357432010-10-06T07:22:34.248-04:002010-10-06T07:22:34.248-04:00Rather than applying a constant amount, I'd ra...Rather than applying a constant amount, I'd rather mark up certain 'encounters' as being more valuable than others, a la JRients' post linked above.<br /><br />- meeting the Beast-men: 200 XP<br />- encountering the Toad-King on his throne: 500 XP<br />- finding the Great Crevasse into Hell: 1000 XP<br /><br />More book-keeping, but also more inspiring and believable, I feel.Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05957086101403128746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-9570158687154511222010-10-06T05:26:35.998-04:002010-10-06T05:26:35.998-04:00It's a nice system, especially if keyed areas ...It's a nice system, especially if keyed areas are mostly keyed because they contain a monster, treasure, trick or trap (and effectively gives xp for dealing with the last two as well).<br /><br />It should also be implemented with some wiggle room. For example, secret or difficult to reach areas should be additional to the base level xp. <br /><br />In this light a megadungeon like COTMA is just a dungeon with a LOT of wiggle room. The exponential nature of level advancement, and things like rival parties clearing out other sections, will keep parties moving down instead of sideways.<br /><br />The one thing to keep in mind is that your model rewards every character the same no matter the size of the party. A smaller party faces greater dangers, though; a party of 4 may not want to fight those ogres on the 1st level, but a party of 8 stands a better chance, and so will get more xp from the level as a whole. Unless your levels are very homogeneous you may want to take this into account.Roger G-Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08594440701279968693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-87322469119320136582010-10-05T23:51:45.103-04:002010-10-05T23:51:45.103-04:00@Matthew: About 5-6 months, weekly.@Matthew: About 5-6 months, weekly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-61122941118472700732010-10-05T20:21:11.952-04:002010-10-05T20:21:11.952-04:00I think giving xp for exploring specific city loca...I think giving xp for exploring specific city locations would work - the overlord's harem, the thieves guild HQ - key them as dungeons. tie it in to rumours, and you have a sandbox with hooks. also allows the players to thik of different ways to gain entry - intrusion, deception etc. <br /><br />'they say the belltower by the canal is where the robber Grimalkin met his doom after his biggest heist, he entered but never left, neither the body or treasure were found'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-61049134250007354492010-10-05T20:06:27.516-04:002010-10-05T20:06:27.516-04:00@Will
re. Castle of the Mad Archmage: do you thin...@Will<br /><br />re. Castle of the Mad Archmage: do you think that a character who completes one of Joseph's gigantic levels should advance about one level? Then yeah, tiny XP awards. I don't myself; I'd say one of those massive is levels is worth a lot more than 2,500 XP. So I'd just keep the 250 XP per keyed area. But, as I say, salt to taste.<br /><br />re non-dungeon adventures: I suggest at the end that this system would nicely work hand in hand with XP for wilderness exploration. <br /><br />The city adventure is definitely something else all-together. I have played very few games where city-based events were sen as XP-generators. There is generally a minimum of fighting (unless it is in secluded temples) and of treasure-taking (again, except in abandoned old temples that are, essentially, dungeons).<br /><br />If you see Ye Auld as a game of exploration, then city-based isn't really the best option. I have, however, previously suggested that you might get XP by exploring various neighborhoods or zones or whatever.<br /><br />@saveversusdeath - how long have you been playing this way?Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-6178292066201057942010-10-05T19:56:25.639-04:002010-10-05T19:56:25.639-04:00This is similar what I do in my campaign. The dung...This is similar what I do in my campaign. The dungeon has 10 levels, and each level has part of a mystic artifact the dungeoneers need to assemble. Every time they find one of the segments, they level up.<br /><br />As you put so well, the reward for exploration is finding the artifact, the reward for finding treasure is having treasure, and monsters are there to be avoided if possible, slain if in the way.<br /><br />It's worked really well so far and really reinforces the play style we sought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-81640257847047395392010-10-05T19:43:25.536-04:002010-10-05T19:43:25.536-04:00Oh, and of course, most rulebooks describe three b...Oh, and of course, most rulebooks describe three basic kinds of adventures: Dungeon, wilderness, and city. How would you adapt this system to the latter two?Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8311060361308252769.post-39359067803591114632010-10-05T19:20:12.951-04:002010-10-05T19:20:12.951-04:00I suppose it would work okay with the "mostly...I suppose it would work okay with the "mostly empty dungeon" assumption in place.<br /><br />That's not everybody's style, though. I'm reminded of Castle of the Mad Archmage, where a single level can have between 100-200 keyed areas.<br /><br />That means either tiny, tiny rewards for each area or some keyed areas being designated "special keyed areas."Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.com